All this Debating,

[Jest]

It killed JL once, and it seems to be trying again. This really isn't the place for it, theres maybe ONE or TWO people interested enough to be slammed to peices, eaten alive and spit out into acid.

It's really not what JL is about, if infact JL is about anything. Last time I tried to hide debating in a seperate area so the rest wouldn't have to suffer it, but that didn't work. I'm tempted to close the threads, but I hate closing threads.

Heres all I'm asking, anytime Religion is brought up in a different thread other than the ones allready going. Or Evolution or anything to DEBATABLE, leave it be. Stick to the topic and don't try to make a big issue out of everything. It seems a few of you have a heart attack if someone doesn't see things your way, but in the interest of civility calm down. Drink some tea, stick your head in a garbage disposal, and then come back and post.

I don't want JL to be a place where you sign on. Say one smidgen of your beleifs and then someone goes "OMG! You are so stupid to think that! You know why? Cause I have a list of slightly relivant facts! Now, I condemn thee to hell."

No ones gonna come here if that happens. Like as is allready happening. It might pain you to see ignorance, but this simply IS NOT THE PLACE.

I'm not gonnna close the other threads. Just, if you don't want to continue the debate feel free to never post in the threads again without any explanation. Just carry on with the normal Content.

Any complaints, PM me. Don't start another bloody war in here.

[DooM]

Very well said, just have respect for whatever someone believes in or doesn't for that matter, that is the only way that "different" people can get along and live in "harmony".

[Avelon]

I say if people want to debate, let them. If not, that's okay too. I'd like to think people are smart enough to realise, "Hey. This thread isn't something I like. Maybe I shouldn't post here." Personally, I don't see a problem. JL has a long history of dying and being ressurected, and for the most part it's not debating that kills it. You said yourself it killed it ONCE before.

What IS killing JL at the moment is education. Finals and whatnot.

[Soul-Divider]

JL has seriosuly lost it's humour from when i first joined. It was all simple posts and everyone was nice 'cept ave.....who was *accepts bribe* an excellent person to meet =P
see I now instead of expecting a silly co-comment I now expect a 7-15 paragraph post explaining why this is not the case and 4 other people will either derbate the issue or call me an ass-hole.

Debting is good, in small moderation, but some of these posts are so massive that you don't even wanna read them.
Also people have become too serious about a joke... I crack a joke, the post is modified, I'm given a warning *shock horror* and I'm insulted by 3 people... (ya, I can live with the last one.)


OMG I'm feeling as though i'm starting to debate...ENDS POST HERE

[Avelon]

avelon said:

I'd like to think people are smart enough to realise, "Hey. This thread isn't something I like. Maybe I shouldn't post here."

And people wonder why I'm a cynic.

[Jest]

To the bit about people being smart enough, that's exactly what I'm trying to encourage. It's more a thing of letting go of their pride in this case, since you guys have been directly attacking beleifs. Ofcoarse someone who is possibly ill equiped is going to jump into battle. I'm just trying to calm the coaxing down.

Tis true JL is killed for many reasons. But for me it was at the point where it was not fun to see the new posts on JL. There was no more joking. The latest joke I've seen was Soul-Dividers completely non serious post about being god. Sounds like somethings I'd say. Unfortinatly some of my staff seems to have panty knot syndrome. Brought on by condesending crap. <- hmmm...this might start something. I take it back! I'd delete it and go for something more tactfull, but it's 6AM I havn't slept and I'm slightly curios what it will bring on. Probably some spelling correction or definition of Condesending that doesn't fit what "I meant. =)

Where was I? Anyway. All I'm really saying which is including to myself, setlle down.

[Kaleb]

What is this? Are you trying to say something? For someone who has repeatedly admitted that you don't read our posts, you sure seem to have a lot of ideas about them. You -might- be able to make the case for me attacking someone's ideas, but I doubt it. I've been attacking the lack of evidence supporting people's beliefs. If you feel there's something wrong with that, feel free to explain it.

The thing about jokes is that they should be funny. SD's post was not. Action was taken. However, you've decided to second-guess a staff member. That said, SD himself didn't seem horribly upset about it. This was, admittedly, a thread that was entirely serious. I would like to point out, however, that it was in fact you who turned "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion." into an argument.

To suggest that what happened is because Ave was being pregnant dogy is insulting, especially that you raise it in a public channel and make vague and incorrect allegations. That said, what is "brought on by condescending crap"? That doesn't even make sense. What happened was not a matter of condescension, it was a matter of good moderation. Furthermore, what can you possibly hope to accomplish by insulting Ave? (and possibly myself as well?) That is certainly no way to stop a disagreement.
You cannot stop an argument by telling the parties involved to not argue. Does not work. A compromise might work, but I don't feel that any Christian is about to admit "Well, I suppose God might not exist, since there's no evidence to suggest he does."
What the hell were you trying to accomplish, posting insulting nonsense? Just because you're the admin doesn't give you and special right to do so.

[MysticalMirror]

I agree with the deletion of the post..When I first read it I also thought it was totally pointless...Granted it was a joke and all but that doesn't deny the fact that it was stupid. Apparently I started something bad with my post which led to everyone else hurling insults at Kaleb and Ave in thier posts. Annoyingly this wasn't the intent. The intent was the replies I got from Kaleb and Ave themselves. Worked out quite well for a while there..Then it all went to Hell..

As a matter of fact I believe my exact words to Ave that day were "If you reply to that with anything other than spite I'll smack you" In regards to the "Joke"

From double-post: Perhaps that wasn't the best way to settle everyone down Jest heh.

EDIT: (Fixed the double post)

[Avelon]

First off, the English lesson you practically gave yourself already:
Condescending means to lower oneself to an inferior's level. If any condescending took place, it was by your staff.

It's more a thing of letting go of their pride in this case, since you guys have been directly attacking beleifs.

Bullnuts^2. You've admitted more than once that you don't read what we say. How would you know? And have you not read anything anyone ELSE has said, either? While Kaleb and I are tossing out theories (and calling them theories, not fact), your free-thinking little angels have been tossing out facts (read: unbased theories that are easily disproven with third grade mathematics), actually calling our theories stupid, not backing up anything they say, ignoring points made by us, and being undeniably, by anyone's standards, rude. What we've done is attempt to CHALLENGE the beliefs. "Okay, you believe that - why? Here are some theories and a few facts that disagree with you." The response we've been getting is either:
"... Moving on to the next subject!" or
"What the f**k? That's stupid. God is, is, ALMIGHTY. And GOD."

That isn't to say we're perfect, but I'd like to point out (go and read if you don't believe me) that we've returned snide remarks with equal ones on our part, then gone on in a civil manner as if no insults were thrown in the first place. If someone is taking these threads seriously, it's not myself, and I doubt it's Kaleb. (See, I don't pretend to know what Kaleb's thoughts and feelings are, either)

Ofcoarse someone who is possibly ill equiped is going to jump into battle.

Then they can learn something. OH THE HORROR. It's not difficult to admit that, while you still don't agree with your opposition, you're not sure how to continue with your case. This is called AGREEING TO DISAGREE, and if Kaleb or I EVER implied that we weren't willing to do that, I'll assure you now that that is not the case.

But for me it was at the point where it was not fun to see the new posts on JL.

Did it not occur to you to start a new thread or two? The only ones that aren't stale are the two debates and this one. Out of what looks like desperation to me, someone brought back one of the stale threads (The Great JL Auction). Why don't you go post there and stop complaining about your inability to cope with not being able to channel the power of GAWD to strike our arguments down?

Where was I? Anyway. All I'm really saying which is including to myself, setlle down.

I wasn't aware anyone was getting overly excited or emotionally unstable because of the debate threads. MysticalMirror seemed a bit miffed, and Silas might have been irritated that we'd actually read his posts and seen fit to run them into the ground, but all in all I'd say these two debates have run smoothly, despite Arilan disappearing from the one.

Even the squabble between Kaleb and MysticalMirror worked itself out. Probably in MSN at the last - as far as I know, they've agreed to disagree. If no one else is mature enough to do that, so be it - and administrator or no, that's none of your business. Ban debating from the board if you want, but this sort of rude patronisation is inexusable, and that's something I think both sides can agree on.

[Jest]

I'm working on the starting the new threads thing. Also, it didn't really occure to me I'd be the only one that it really pisses off. But it does anyway. =P

And perhaps I was misreading how seiriously you guys were taking it, but Kaleb certanly likes to pounce on things. To me debating should be a spectators sport, cause I don't take them very well. It's simply not my arena. =P

But whatever, I'll just stay out of it. =P Just don't let it creep into to many threads.

[DooM]

xtreeme said:

...some of these posts are so massive that you don't even wanna read them...

Holy crap cowpie! The last few posts have been so long that I didn't feel the strength to go out there and actually read them...

[Silas]

I remember when I first came here, it was just to be a dumbass. And now I have to agree with DooM, Kaleb and Avelon are making these gigantic posts and nuts. You know what would solve this? A comic and a song. Both of these are Jest's department, so start cracking! It's called Jester Loco for a reason!

[Avelon]

Enough. I'm sick of everyone whining because I'm apparently forcing them to read these threads, and in the same breath telling me I'm wrong in both of them.
If you want to debate, let's debate. But please, before you do, un-f**k yourself long enough to admit that you might not know everything, and that you might not have all of your facts straight, even if you sincerely believe that you are right.

Thread will be moved to Cemetary on Friday, Dec 16.